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ScuzzaMan's avatar

"Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were evil regimes that had to be defeated"

Now, apply the same moral criteria you used to reach this conclusion, to our own governments; the EU, the UK, and the US.

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Ian Proud's avatar

A painful process, indeed.

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Peter Taylor's avatar

Thank you Ian proud a very salient reminder of what actually occurred and was despite modern efforts to merely brush it all aside, to forget, to rewrite actual events and history, to distort facts, in short to lie, obfuscate and hide truths from which there can be no escape… I salute you for your efforts, follow your every interview on Soc Media for you are one of the few sane voices championing humanity…

I am tired and up to my back teeth with the lies, the hubris, same old tropes rolled out, deployed, interestingly after most WW2 vets had passed, few left to speak up and out about as described the horrors of conflict.

The West no angels, our history littered with the detritus and filth, the halo of stench that pervades and overwhelms now repeating, some of which you quite rightly opine and comment upon, in today’s conflicts indeed even the most recent Kashmir, the Western states of the U.K and U.S again continuing their assault on BRICS+ and multipolarity, it’s so absurd yet obvious as they and their E.U sycophants flail and thresh in their death throes, their fiat monetary system all but completely, debased, valueless, their incessant spendthrift and money printing finally catching up, no more cans to boot down the road, the top echelons of financial elites, led the GSIB bankers, Main Street banks, fund managers, Private Equity and especially the likes of Blackrock, State Street and Vanguard together their ilk, orchestrating and pulling the strings, hardly able to hold the leash of the dogs of war they have unleashed, for once unleashed these dogs take on a life form of their own, all planning, computed gaming thrown out of the proverbial window, teeth bared they become gnarly, uncontrolled, that is what these reprobate wankers are finding out assaults and assails them in firstly Ukraine, by the Ansah Allah Houthis, by HAMAS, all so called well laid plans completely f..ked, yet they double, treble down, unable to recognise their own sunk cost fallacy, they left it to late.

Typically and as we know, being greed obsessed, they bilked and squeezed as much as they could from a financial system they themselves designed, cultivated and then cannibalised, irreparably breaking it, the solution, conflict, a must win, last ditch do or die effort, conflagration the answer, nuclear, who cares, they bank (excuse the pun) on surviving though exactly what they will emerge unto is a mystery, no one left to buy their shit or to be squeezed further …

The fiat monetary system needs recapitalised, that is why every war has been fought in this rinse, repeat cycle of conflict… time to end it, pray Russia as they did WW2 yields to no one, defeats this demented and as you correctly describe, evil enemy of humanity, that this time the victors Russia, a god fearing nation unsullied the liberal globalist ideology has proper trials unlike the contrived Nuremberg sop … something we in the West have not been able to wean ourselves off… the quintessential charade, give the people the spectre of law and order but in reality, do nothing, a few tokens to keep the simpletons happy, make and let them think they won… its pernicious, sick, evil, this time Russia I believe will persecute the belligerents and antagonists as is truly demanded, there can be no other way… hang or shoot the f..king lot of them.. let humanity move forward truly freed from this evil… just saying

Kia Kaha (stay strong) from New Zealand

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Ian Proud's avatar

Thanks Peter.

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Gilgamech's avatar

Today I remember my grandfathers and my great uncle.

Yes, prevention is better than cure when it comes to war.

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Pascal Lottaz's avatar

For the first time I would like to push back a bit on one of your interpretations. This tendency to equate Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Imperial Japan to me always was off balance when it came to Japan. Germany and Italy they had very similar internal political trajectories and power-distributions with long-term dictators in power. But Japan? Just keep in mind that between 1931 and 1945 (Japan's 15 years of violent warfare in the Post-WWI world) had 13 Cabinets. 13. That's a lot. Even Hideki Tojo—who often is compared to Hitler and Mussolini—was Prime Minister only for 2.5 years. Furthermore, the Japanese even had Parliamentary elections in 1942 and while they were "guided" there is good research that shows that the result was not at all what Tojo had hoped for. There is a good short thesis by Edward Drea about this here: https://kuscholarworks.ku.edu/bitstream/handle/1808/1191/CEAS.1979.n11.pdf?sequence=1

While you are absolutely right that what especially the Imperial Army and to a somewhat lesser degree the Imperial Navy did in East and Southeast Asia was barbaric and horrifying, the cause for that was often a different one than for Germany and Italy. In Europe, we can clearly attribute the Holocaust and Fascist crimes to decisions by the top level and, hence, state policy. In Japan, one of the major problems the state had was the fractured nature of the power distribution. Especially the Imperial Army—a very brutal bunch of often insubordinate youth—at key moments instigated events like the "Mukden Incident" that later strung the political process in Tokyo along. Which is not to say that the political elite didn't bare responsibility for them. Not at all.

We must not exonerate the politics in Tokyo, but we must differentiate the processes that lead to mass-violence. I would argue, that while the resulting slaughter of civilians in China and Southeast Asia committed by Japanese military personell was very comparable to that in Europe and Africa committed by Germany and Italy, the underlying political process the lead to them were different. I would characterise the deeds of the military organs as evil, but the Japanese regime I wouldn't call them evil as much as incompetent in controlling the militarised system they had created. (And again, that's not to protect or justify anything Japan did. If you create a Frankenstein and then that thing goes on a killing-spree, then you bear ultimate responsibility).

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Ian Proud's avatar

Pascal, big love for everything that you do and, of course, it isn’t possible directly to compare Imperial Japan with Nazi Germany, not least because of vastly different Asian and European cultures. You will understand this better than the vast majority, as a Swiss citizen living in Japan. Likewise, and as you know, I spent several years living in South East Asia.

Of course, you can separate the processes involved and also easy to pinpoint particular thuggish factions. But given Japan’s single emperor, its huge militarisation and the specifically Japanese military culture associated with that, I fear that you are being slightly too kind to your hosts. But your point is well made, as always.

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LudwigF's avatar

Yes, I largely agree with you.

Had the Japanese treated allied POWs decently and humanely, together with the populations of the countries that they invaded and occupied, then we might now be able to examine more impartially the ‘root causes’ of the conflict.

The British, French, Dutch, and even the Americans had established colonies and empires in Japan’s backyard, but when Japan sought to do much the same thing for itself in China, Roosevelt, under pressure from the ‘missionary lobby’ instituted a quasi economic blockade of Japan.

Without being able to import iron, steel scrap, or oil the Japanese economy would rapidly have collapsed, and since the IJN had only sufficient bunker fuel for a few months, their choice was to ‘surrender’, or to fight.

I think it unlikely that there was much doubt in Roosevelt’s mind as to which choice the Japanese would make.

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Joseph's avatar

A+

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Steve's avatar

Well said Ian! 👍🙏

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Sj's avatar

Dresdem bombing , imperial african concentration camps, India enforced Famine, Iraq 1 Million, USA 2 nuclear Bombs, Laos, Vietnam, Coups, on and on and on.....the west is free and good? The sooner The west goes to get some therapy and look in the mirror the better, else continuation.

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Mr. Raven's avatar

Yes!

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LudwigF's avatar

Thank you for this timely reminder of the debt that we owe to the soldiers who sacrificed so much to defeat tyranny and bring freedom to the world.

Our debt to the Red Army in particular is too large ever to be repaid, and so can therefore never be truly acknowledged.

I would add; we should also remember that, along with American, British and Soviet troops, the Chinese were also fighting, and for a longer period than any other nation, suffering themselves 3-4 million military deaths, and inflicting hundreds of thousands of casualties upon the Japanese.

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Martin's avatar

The U.S. propaganda machine relentlessly pushes the lie that America single-handedly crushed Japan, but the cold, hard numbers expose this as pure historical fraud. Let’s set the record straight: Of the 2.1-2.3 million Japanese military deaths in WWII, a staggering 700,000 to 1.1 million (40-50%) were slaughtered by Chinese forces across eight grueling years of combat - long before America even joined the fight. Meanwhile, the U.S. only managed to inflict 30-40% of total casualties, primarily in late-war naval battles where they had overwhelming technological advantages. Even the Soviets achieved more in two weeks (killing 80,000 in Manchuria) than the U.S. did in entire Pacific campaigns.

This isn’t just innocent ignorance - it’s deliberate empire-building through historical fabrication. Washington systematically erases China’s monumental sacrifice and the Soviet’s devastating blow because admitting the truth would shatter America’s carefully cultivated ‘savior’ mythology. The entire Western historical narrative is nothing but victor’s justice - a grotesque exercise in rewriting reality to feed American exceptionalism while diminishing every other nation’s contributions. These aren’t textbooks; they’re propaganda manuals for maintaining U.S. global hegemony

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Ian Proud's avatar

Thanks, helpful information and context.

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Richard Morchoe's avatar

The colonial regime of the British Empire, both next door and where the sun never set has a lot to answer for.

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Ian Proud's avatar

It does.

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Richard Morchoe's avatar

Let us not forget other colonial regimes such as Spain and Portugal and France. Is there a country that If it gets big enough that won't murder or steal from its enemies or victims? Ah, but they will exclaim, at least we weren't National Socialists.

At the Long Hill Institute we have posited a tongue in cheek political natural law: Everything eventually reduces to its absurd.

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Ben Fitch's avatar

Some culpability filters down from all the way from party cadres to ordinary civilians.

Far more are culpably naïve or corruptible than are perfidious, but the distinction is not material; the less so as the tall stories told to oneself – the misapprehensions laboured under, are deep-rooted and actionable.

A case in point is Keir Starmer with his Donald-ing of the President this week at his trade deal announcement, unmistakable and for all the world to see. With everything Mr Starmer lets slide domestically, to make this particularly stand in light of Trump’s VE day comments, if that’s what it was, is poignant in its absurdity.

A regime depends for its legitimacy too on the acquiescence of ordinary recipients of patronage, who are yet not under duress – the regime profits from a return, in the form of silence, on moral support and the advantages of the shared culture.

Muhammed Ali’s comments in conversation with Michael Parkinson are illustrative:

“There are many white people who mean right and in their hearts wanna do right. If 10,000 snakes were coming down that aisle now, and I had a door that I could shut, and in that 10,000, 1,000 meant right ... should I let all these rattlesnakes come down, hoping that that thousand get together and form a shield? Or should I just close the door and stay safe?”

Do not expect superhuman forbearance from ordinary people; do eventually expect ordinary perspicacity and ordinary courage.

I hope we can make it right

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Julie Lindner's avatar

Why haven't you included Israel?

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Ian Proud's avatar

Because I was talking about World War II?

I have commented elsewhere, at length, on my revulsion at Israel's tactics in Gaza. Forgive me if I don't mention Israel in every single post I make.

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Archie1954's avatar

Your words are much better at expressing the overwhelming disaster and evil of discretionary war, than any words I could utter stating the same thing. Thank you.

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Julian Hudson's avatar

As I read your article I could see a complete repeat of Japan and Germany in the hegemonic foreign policies of the U.S. and its vassal allies.

They are using racism, group punishment, extreme interrogation methods, international terrorist organizations that they nurture and finance etc.

We haven't learned anything. When I was growing up I heard the phrase, "never again" with reference to the a repeat of the 2 world wars. But here we are again, working with Nazis and establishing a state for them but also for the Muslim terrorist groups.

And all of this evil emanates from D.C. which is the seat of power.

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Martin Eden Clarke's avatar

I agree with your views on the evilness of German and Japanese activities particularly during the 1939 to 1945 period. You mentioned the help the French Resistance gave in enabling folk to escape the ravenous onslaught by the German army. Dare we utter the name of a Terrorist group of Freedom Fighters? They along with the Greek Partisans committed heinous crimes against the German occupation. Blowing them up, dowsing them with petrol bombs. Our own Dad's Army were taught to carry out similar actions if occupied. Fight the Evil Hun on the beaches and on the streets cried out Churchill. Since those days our consecutive governments have never admitted that they were all Terrorists. Or were they? The Wests definition of a Terrorist Group appears to be all organised Indigenous Freedom Fighters who fight to regain their stolen lands from Colonialist Occupation. The UK were responsible for torturing and hanging many of Jomo Keyattas warrior group referred to as the Mau Mau during their successful uprising. The UK and the USA conspired to assassinate Patrice Lumumba in the Former Belgian Congo. He was dragged into the jungle and hacked to death with <machete's on the orders of Eisenhower. The mere sniff of the introduction of the Social Justice of Hospitals, Schools, Housing, Water Supplies etc through Nationalization brings out the Neocon 'Long Knives' which they have used on many occasions particularly in the Middle East, South America and Africa. There are no voices of protest from Europe, North America or the Latino controlled Countries in South America.. All Freedom Fighters including Hamas are Brave, under attack from the West's Extra Judicial killing policies and there evil bombing campaigns. Gaza is experiencing the London Blitz but without food, water and hospitals, it appears 90% of our MPs across all parties are complicit in the Palestinian Genocide. Justice for them would be for them to be put through exactly the same experiences as the West Bank Indigenous residents.

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Ian Proud's avatar

Thanks Martin. And you are right. One person's terrorists are another's freedom fighters. And I agree on the shameful complicity of parliamentarians in the disgraceful atrocities being commited by Israel in Gaza

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John Brophy's avatar

Reflecting on the lessons of history is the best thing we can do today. Nobody captures the full historical context like Ian Proud, and brings it into focus for leaders and decision makers today - who for the most part, unfortunately, will ignore it as it does not fit their chosen/given narrative. We could debate the bombing of Hirsoshima, Nagasaki but more relevant today is the India/Pakistan conflict, Israel/Iran, NATO/Russia and the spin offs of these. Diplomacy is absent mostly when it is sorely needed. U.S.. China and Russia will work out their positions on the world stage and it won't be pretty. For now it is 2 against 1 as Trump struggles to stem the decline of the hegemon and the Bear and the Dragon team up to see how they can accelerate it.

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Mr. Raven's avatar

Of course the allies who fire bombed Dresden and dropped 2 nuclear bombs on Japan and the Jews who asset strip any community unfortunate enough to host them are fully good, right?

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Ian Proud's avatar

I'm fairly sure that wasn't my message. And whatever your views on Jewish people, I'm afraid I can never accept events like the holocaust, nor any genocide including, of course, in Gaza..

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Mr. Raven's avatar

There is scant evidence a “Holocaust” even happened, very much unlike the demonic Jew’s mass slaughter of women and children to steal their land in Gaza.

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Ian Proud's avatar

I've been to Auschwitz, Dachau, Belsen and Zmievskaya Balka. You should get out more. It might help you sound less like a fool

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Mr. Raven's avatar

LOL, you think those “showers,” are real "fool?" Hint they are reconstructions and not even close to gas tight. No one is saying BTW that there weren’t foced labor camps for Jew parasites at those locations. What is disputed is whether they were deliberate mass extermination camps.

If there were why is there no paper trail indicating that purpose? Are you telling me the Nazis rounded up millions of people and systematically exterminated them all by word of mouth with no formal written instructions to do so? And most especially considering the German's penchant for documentation and detailed precise instructions? That honestly beggars belief.

Why have no human remains including ashes been fouund on or near these supposed mass extermination sites?

The math of the extermination does not add up by orders of magnitude.

Note I didn’t start out as a “Holocaust denier,” I started out as an anti-war leftist, yet watching the bad behavior of Jews over the decades combined with a lack of any concrete evidence for extermination camps, I do most certainly have questions.

Note too even Jews like Norman Finklstein say the “Holocaust” is foundational myth that enables the ongoing genocide we actually know is happening in Gaza.

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