We should consider that even when there is a parent in Ukraine demanding their child come there, there may be the other parent in Russia demanding their child child stay there (and vice versa). This long war has caused a lot of divorce in two countries that already had a high level of divorce. Sometimes it’s not about war, but just the usual misery of family breakdown.
In October 2024, Ukraine claimed 1.5 million Ukrainian children were at risk of being "deported" by Russia. They were never able to produce any evidence of these claims and later accused Russia of abducting more than 20,000 children. Independent journalists were never able to verify these claims. Some of them travelled to Ukraine and later to Russia in an attempt to do that. They were able to meet with children who were evacuated to safety by the Russian troops. There was no evidence of forced evacuation of any children who were safe with their families. Evacuated children were usually those who were either somehow separated from their families or those who lost their parents and had no identified relatives at the time. They were placed in orphanages, where they were given not only food and shelter but also access to education.
On the other hand, there were alarming reports from the Ukrainian refugees who travelled to Europe and were separated from their children in countries such as Germany and the Netherlands with no explanations given to them. Many are still struggling to reunite with their children.
To date, Ukraine still failed to share with the Russian government the list of the allegedly abducted 20,000 children. After the latest round of negotiations in Istanbul, Ukraine produced a list of 339 "abducted" children. The question is where are the other 19,661 names then and don't the Ukrainians want them returned?
Given the well known reports of various paedophile rings operating in Europe and the Ukrainian children who have gone missing in Germany and the Netherlands after their parents arrived there as refugees, the Russians quite rightly only agree to hand over those children who can be reunited with the identified parents or other relatives rater than just handing them over on request from the Ukrainian government. After all, it is the same Ukrainian government that failed to produce the names of children that they accuse Russia of abducting and it is the same government that doesn't care enough to collect the bodies of 6,000 soldiers, who fought for their country, which Russia offered to hand over without any conditions for burial.
I still can't believe that this story of abducted children was the basis of the ICC's warrant for Putin's arrest, which still remains valid without any evidence of the alleged abduction having ever been presented by the Ukrainian government! That's the mad world we live in today!
This whole issue is a Red Herring. Yale first said everything was fine and when their lead investigator and funding were threatened by Biden, they said Russia was a kidnapper resulting in Yale’s complete loss of credibility on the issue. These kids are getting the best treatment and education that only Russia can provide under the circumstances. Going back to a war is the last thing any of the kids want if it means being pressed ganged into military service. Ukraine is a hell hole, a failed state, and a gross violator of human rights. Russia saved these kids and this is the thanks they get.
Great to see a nation like Ukraine get back its kidnapped children. Once back they can be kitted out and sent to the front to be killed by their old kidnappers. Heartwarming stuff.
My recollection is that the 20,000 figure was originally 200,000 but there was a massive climbdown in the scale of the allegations? Or the original figure of 20,000 is now only 2,000?
It is quite extraordinary that an allegation of war crimes was made, and sentence passed, only for 90% of the evidence to be revealed as fabricated, yet the sentence be allowed to stand.
I cannot see that in any normal legal case in the West, in the UK, that sentence would be allowed to stand in similar circumstances i.e. that 90% of the prosecution evidence was simply made up.
Ukraine should be required to provide a list of names and dates of birth and family histories and proof of circumstances of each individual at the time of alleged deportation, it be handed over to the United Nations, and then an independent body set up to deal with each individual case. And by independent I don't mean consisting of the usual Western suspects, the sort of 'independent' body represented by prosecutors at the *** whose judgments can be politicised.
Yes, each single case is tragic, and should be pursued to its conclusion. But it is nuanced, as you point out. A Russian-speaking orphan from Russian-heritage 'Ukrainian' parents might be technically 'Ukrainian' in that they were born within the borders of that particular (now historical) iteration of 'Ukraine', but are they really 'Ukrainian'? It's like saying orphans in Gaza should be handed over to Israel as technically Israel is the legal authority. That's abominable.
If the children that have been moved to Russia have been 'kidnapped', surely the children moved to the EU have also been kidnapped.
What does the world think Russia should have done with these children, having come across them in a warzone? Leave them to their fate with artillery shells flying around?
I'm afraid this is more crybabying by the West, who are perfectly happy for nearly a million Ukrainian families to lose their fathers, as we throw them all under the bus, content to fight to the last Ukrainian. We really have no moral ground of any altitude, high or low, to preach from.
The West has been perfectly happy to turn a blind eye to Ukraine's rent-a-womb industry, where childless couples in the West pay ten thousand dollars to a Ukrainian woman to carry a child for them, and then take it overseas when it's born. Ukraine was the world leader in this 'industry' (there's damnation in that word itself), at least before the war started. So where was the moral outrage from the West at a child being separated from its birth mother, FOR CASH?! Where are the legal charges against I presume every Ukrainian president since (googled) 1997? Not to forget charges against the leaders of every country who have 'legally' allowed the purchase for cash of Ukrainian babies and the subsequent 're-passportisation' of those babies.
The West is happy to let Angelina Jolie wander around Africa merrily adding to her collection of black babies (very fashionable!), and yet we have the brass neck to deem Putin a 'war criminal' for removing children from a war zone to a place of safety (Yes, that should only be a first step).
Still, let's hope the futures of every single one of these children 'forcibly' relocated to Russia can be resolved to the satisfaction of all parties. It seems like processes are working, quietly, behind the scenes, with the help of third-country mediation, and it is heartwarming to read that 1,223 children were presumably re-united with at least one of their birth parents again in 2024.
You state that the 339 children are only a fraction of those allegedly held by Russia. However, Russia’s chief negotiator, Medinsky, claims that Ukraine has provided a list containing only 339 names. Frankly, I find the Russian version more credible in this instance, as Ukraine should, in theory, be able to compile a much longer list of missing children—given that each child has a family who could report them.
I don't see any desire for escaltion by the Russians, Iran, or Chinese. They are ony responding to Western aggression. Their response shouldn't be construed as the equivalent of the outright unilateral Western aggression that they have been subjected too.
The U.S. has driven these conflicts the whole time. The means, methods and timeliness have been outlined by U.S. think tanks.
Rusdia has been subjected to several terror attacks but has not responded disproportionately. Even now the attacks Russia has launched on Ukraine after its recent terror attacks has been reserved compared to how the U.S. has attacked other countries who weren't attacking it.
There can be no confidence building with a country like the U.S. that is dedicated to preserving its privilege to steal from the other 193 nations and political entities.
Trump can't ever touch or acknowledge the root causes of the war because it would mean the U.S. having to apologize and give up on its mission to subjugation Russia, China, Iran and the BRICS counties.
Don't have any diplomatic background, but it would appear to me that if such a decission might come at or near the end of the conflict. Both sides appear to want to escalete right now.
Also, trusting Ukraine with children from a Russian perspective might be a bad idea. The kids could be manouvered into shooting propaganda videos and other things of the sort. From an image side, it might be worse than to be known as a child abducter, witch only people already supporting Ukraine believe.
From a family situation, they already have programs to reunite families divides by war as far as I know.
Dear Ian I would suggest you to investigate what happened the 12.000 children dissapeared from the Russian speaking Ukraine and what Mme Zelenska does with them if you want to go down
that rabbit hole contact Ania K (Through the Eyes of, YT). she received information about it.
And Grayzone investigated In Situ, when Zelensky denounced Putin as who had abducted 20.000
children from the fighting zone of Donbass. most of the children were sent there by their parents.
When the Russian forces found secret labs Mike Jones with Masha the translator (you also can see their interview in RT, then Mike went as IEarlGrayTea, they had been using children by experiments.
Ukrainian history with children is a horror much like Zionists in Gaza from the Poroshenko times.
The Ukrainians have used the issue of "kidnapped" children as a propaganda tool and it has been lapped up - as you'd expect - by western media. Once again, it is a case of clear double standards by the west, look at the thousands of Vietnamese kids that were removed from Vietnam by the Americans to the US during "Operation Babylift" - but that was apparently a great humanitarian effort and not a mass kidnapping. What you see depends on where you stand.
It’s unconscionable to deport Russian children back to the Nazis in Ukraine. It’s a war zone! Ukraine is an international terrorist organization! Why do you have such a burning desire to kill children? First the Zelinski terrorist attacks and now you’re looking for more kids to slaughter?
This is why Ukraine must cease to exist, which fortunately will be very soon.
Thank you for the nuanced assessment, Ian.
We should consider that even when there is a parent in Ukraine demanding their child come there, there may be the other parent in Russia demanding their child child stay there (and vice versa). This long war has caused a lot of divorce in two countries that already had a high level of divorce. Sometimes it’s not about war, but just the usual misery of family breakdown.
Quite. The generalisation and perma propaganda distracts us from the countless personal tragedies taking place each day on both sides of the line.
In October 2024, Ukraine claimed 1.5 million Ukrainian children were at risk of being "deported" by Russia. They were never able to produce any evidence of these claims and later accused Russia of abducting more than 20,000 children. Independent journalists were never able to verify these claims. Some of them travelled to Ukraine and later to Russia in an attempt to do that. They were able to meet with children who were evacuated to safety by the Russian troops. There was no evidence of forced evacuation of any children who were safe with their families. Evacuated children were usually those who were either somehow separated from their families or those who lost their parents and had no identified relatives at the time. They were placed in orphanages, where they were given not only food and shelter but also access to education.
On the other hand, there were alarming reports from the Ukrainian refugees who travelled to Europe and were separated from their children in countries such as Germany and the Netherlands with no explanations given to them. Many are still struggling to reunite with their children.
To date, Ukraine still failed to share with the Russian government the list of the allegedly abducted 20,000 children. After the latest round of negotiations in Istanbul, Ukraine produced a list of 339 "abducted" children. The question is where are the other 19,661 names then and don't the Ukrainians want them returned?
Given the well known reports of various paedophile rings operating in Europe and the Ukrainian children who have gone missing in Germany and the Netherlands after their parents arrived there as refugees, the Russians quite rightly only agree to hand over those children who can be reunited with the identified parents or other relatives rater than just handing them over on request from the Ukrainian government. After all, it is the same Ukrainian government that failed to produce the names of children that they accuse Russia of abducting and it is the same government that doesn't care enough to collect the bodies of 6,000 soldiers, who fought for their country, which Russia offered to hand over without any conditions for burial.
I still can't believe that this story of abducted children was the basis of the ICC's warrant for Putin's arrest, which still remains valid without any evidence of the alleged abduction having ever been presented by the Ukrainian government! That's the mad world we live in today!
It is, indeed, a mad world!
This whole issue is a Red Herring. Yale first said everything was fine and when their lead investigator and funding were threatened by Biden, they said Russia was a kidnapper resulting in Yale’s complete loss of credibility on the issue. These kids are getting the best treatment and education that only Russia can provide under the circumstances. Going back to a war is the last thing any of the kids want if it means being pressed ganged into military service. Ukraine is a hell hole, a failed state, and a gross violator of human rights. Russia saved these kids and this is the thanks they get.
Great to see a nation like Ukraine get back its kidnapped children. Once back they can be kitted out and sent to the front to be killed by their old kidnappers. Heartwarming stuff.
Dark.
As long as Russia doesn't give the dead bodies back, forcing Ukraine to pay the wives a widow's pension, that's the main thing.
Altogether now...chant after me...
"Slava Saves Us a Few Bob!!"
Great piece, Ian. Well done.
My recollection is that the 20,000 figure was originally 200,000 but there was a massive climbdown in the scale of the allegations? Or the original figure of 20,000 is now only 2,000?
It is quite extraordinary that an allegation of war crimes was made, and sentence passed, only for 90% of the evidence to be revealed as fabricated, yet the sentence be allowed to stand.
I cannot see that in any normal legal case in the West, in the UK, that sentence would be allowed to stand in similar circumstances i.e. that 90% of the prosecution evidence was simply made up.
Ukraine should be required to provide a list of names and dates of birth and family histories and proof of circumstances of each individual at the time of alleged deportation, it be handed over to the United Nations, and then an independent body set up to deal with each individual case. And by independent I don't mean consisting of the usual Western suspects, the sort of 'independent' body represented by prosecutors at the *** whose judgments can be politicised.
Yes, each single case is tragic, and should be pursued to its conclusion. But it is nuanced, as you point out. A Russian-speaking orphan from Russian-heritage 'Ukrainian' parents might be technically 'Ukrainian' in that they were born within the borders of that particular (now historical) iteration of 'Ukraine', but are they really 'Ukrainian'? It's like saying orphans in Gaza should be handed over to Israel as technically Israel is the legal authority. That's abominable.
If the children that have been moved to Russia have been 'kidnapped', surely the children moved to the EU have also been kidnapped.
What does the world think Russia should have done with these children, having come across them in a warzone? Leave them to their fate with artillery shells flying around?
I'm afraid this is more crybabying by the West, who are perfectly happy for nearly a million Ukrainian families to lose their fathers, as we throw them all under the bus, content to fight to the last Ukrainian. We really have no moral ground of any altitude, high or low, to preach from.
The West has been perfectly happy to turn a blind eye to Ukraine's rent-a-womb industry, where childless couples in the West pay ten thousand dollars to a Ukrainian woman to carry a child for them, and then take it overseas when it's born. Ukraine was the world leader in this 'industry' (there's damnation in that word itself), at least before the war started. So where was the moral outrage from the West at a child being separated from its birth mother, FOR CASH?! Where are the legal charges against I presume every Ukrainian president since (googled) 1997? Not to forget charges against the leaders of every country who have 'legally' allowed the purchase for cash of Ukrainian babies and the subsequent 're-passportisation' of those babies.
The West is happy to let Angelina Jolie wander around Africa merrily adding to her collection of black babies (very fashionable!), and yet we have the brass neck to deem Putin a 'war criminal' for removing children from a war zone to a place of safety (Yes, that should only be a first step).
Still, let's hope the futures of every single one of these children 'forcibly' relocated to Russia can be resolved to the satisfaction of all parties. It seems like processes are working, quietly, behind the scenes, with the help of third-country mediation, and it is heartwarming to read that 1,223 children were presumably re-united with at least one of their birth parents again in 2024.
Oh it appears I've jumped the gun on Putin being sentenced (i.e. in absentia). It seems they are only allegations at this stage. Still...
Indeed. But thanks.
You state that the 339 children are only a fraction of those allegedly held by Russia. However, Russia’s chief negotiator, Medinsky, claims that Ukraine has provided a list containing only 339 names. Frankly, I find the Russian version more credible in this instance, as Ukraine should, in theory, be able to compile a much longer list of missing children—given that each child has a family who could report them.
I think that point is implied in my piece....
On precisely this subject, an excellent, logical summary of current events from Andrew.
https://open.substack.com/pub/korybko/p/russias-efforts-to-return-displaced?r=3uqqaf&utm_medium=ios
Zelenskiy et al should certainly be believed?? Ha!!
I don't see any desire for escaltion by the Russians, Iran, or Chinese. They are ony responding to Western aggression. Their response shouldn't be construed as the equivalent of the outright unilateral Western aggression that they have been subjected too.
The U.S. has driven these conflicts the whole time. The means, methods and timeliness have been outlined by U.S. think tanks.
Rusdia has been subjected to several terror attacks but has not responded disproportionately. Even now the attacks Russia has launched on Ukraine after its recent terror attacks has been reserved compared to how the U.S. has attacked other countries who weren't attacking it.
There can be no confidence building with a country like the U.S. that is dedicated to preserving its privilege to steal from the other 193 nations and political entities.
Trump can't ever touch or acknowledge the root causes of the war because it would mean the U.S. having to apologize and give up on its mission to subjugation Russia, China, Iran and the BRICS counties.
Don't have any diplomatic background, but it would appear to me that if such a decission might come at or near the end of the conflict. Both sides appear to want to escalete right now.
Also, trusting Ukraine with children from a Russian perspective might be a bad idea. The kids could be manouvered into shooting propaganda videos and other things of the sort. From an image side, it might be worse than to be known as a child abducter, witch only people already supporting Ukraine believe.
From a family situation, they already have programs to reunite families divides by war as far as I know.
As always, a pleassure reading you
Dear Ian I would suggest you to investigate what happened the 12.000 children dissapeared from the Russian speaking Ukraine and what Mme Zelenska does with them if you want to go down
that rabbit hole contact Ania K (Through the Eyes of, YT). she received information about it.
And Grayzone investigated In Situ, when Zelensky denounced Putin as who had abducted 20.000
children from the fighting zone of Donbass. most of the children were sent there by their parents.
When the Russian forces found secret labs Mike Jones with Masha the translator (you also can see their interview in RT, then Mike went as IEarlGrayTea, they had been using children by experiments.
Ukrainian history with children is a horror much like Zionists in Gaza from the Poroshenko times.
🙏🙏 not even one
The Ukrainians have used the issue of "kidnapped" children as a propaganda tool and it has been lapped up - as you'd expect - by western media. Once again, it is a case of clear double standards by the west, look at the thousands of Vietnamese kids that were removed from Vietnam by the Americans to the US during "Operation Babylift" - but that was apparently a great humanitarian effort and not a mass kidnapping. What you see depends on where you stand.
It’s unconscionable to deport Russian children back to the Nazis in Ukraine. It’s a war zone! Ukraine is an international terrorist organization! Why do you have such a burning desire to kill children? First the Zelinski terrorist attacks and now you’re looking for more kids to slaughter?
This is why Ukraine must cease to exist, which fortunately will be very soon.
Don't be ridiculous. I obviously have no desire to kill children.